K-Wal Cast
Interview podcast with the people in my life. We'll have some fun, dig deeper, and have some good conversations.
K-Wal Cast
Brian Garner: Election Turmoil in a Small Town
How could a small election mishap turn a community upside down? In this episode, we venture into the world of local politics with my brother-in-law, Brian Garner, a city commissioner from Union, Kentucky. Brian takes us behind the scenes of what can happen when an election goes wrong.
This episode sheds light on the rapid and costly legal battles candidates endure when elections are contested, revealing just how precarious maintaining transparency and fairness in local governance can be.
Brian recounts the aftermath of the election and a city commission meeting filled with tension and unexpected political maneuvering that left the community buzzing.
If you'd like to learn more about Brian, you can follow his socials on Facebook and Blue Sky here:
https://www.facebook.com/BrianGarnerKY
http://briangarnernky.bsky.social/
Welcome to the KWALCast. My name is Nick Kowalski and this is a podcast where we normally have fun conversations with fun people. However, this week is a little different.
Speaker 2:You could feel the tension. The tension was in the air, just like what in the heck's going to happen.
Speaker 1:That's my brother-in-law, brian Garner. This week we divert from our usual fun conversations to bring you his story. You see, brian has been a commissioner for the City of Union, kentucky, for the past four years. A commissioner in Union is like a city council member in other towns. Brian recently ran for re-election this past November and he won, or at least he got fourth place, which was good enough to be re-elected in a five-person race for four spots. At least that's what he thought on election night.
Speaker 1:However, there was a problem at one of the polling locations on election day. By all accounts, it was an honest mistake and one that any of us could make. This is a tale of how that simple mistake set off a series of events that would consume a city. We often envision mudslinging in the Washington swamp when we think of what's wrong with politics, but local politics can get messy too. In this episode, we'll get a glimpse into what local politics can be. How does local government work, what do they do and what can happen if an election goes wrong?
Speaker 1:To be sure, I am not a journalist. I just know Brian personally. His experience since election day has been a roller coaster, and it culminated in a meeting that stunned his community. This episode is meant to be a chance for him to share his story. I hope you enjoy it. Brian Garner, welcome to the KWALCast. Hey, how are you? Thanks for having me. No problem, thanks for coming on. This is a special edition of the podcast and a little bit different of a format than we normally follow. Normally we just kind of get to know our guests, but in your situation you are involved in local politics.
Speaker 2:That's correct. I think everybody's favorite topic, and something all of your listeners have wanted to hear you do, is to talk about politics yeah, everybody loves that and then, in full transparency and disclosure, I think we should disclose our relationship. You are my brother-in-law, yes, so you know there is that, so you will be extremely favorable.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So knowing that, like, like you know, we have this connection with each other, like today's, meant this episode is meant to be just like a platform for you to kind of describe, like, what you've been going through in your most recent election. So, to start off, you have been a commissioner for the city of union kentucky, which is about 20-25 minutes south of Cincinnati. Can you please describe for our listeners what does the commission do Like, what is your role and who's on it?
Speaker 2:So first, union, you're correct, we're about 20 minutes south of Cincinnati. We're an affluent suburb in Boone County, kentucky, and you know I always describe it as the greatest city and the greatest county and the greatest state. So you know, we've got roughly 7,500 people inside the city limits and the city limits are kind of strangely drawn, so there are a lot of people that get a union mailing address that don't actually live inside the city limits. And our city is a little unique. We're run by a city commission where most people think of a council and a mayor. So, yeah, so most people when they think of city government they think of their local council and mayor.
Speaker 2:In Kentucky we have and I think other states have it as well, we have city commissions that also work. So our city commission, it has five members. One of them is the mayor, who basically he runs the meetings, he signs documents and contracts, but at the end of the day he has the same power as the other four members. So the five of us collectively make up what is the city commission. So basically, none of us can do anything without the other mission. So basically, you know, none of us can do anything without the other. And to get anything done, at least three of us have to be on the same page.
Speaker 2:So I've been doing this, for I finished four years, so that's two terms and yeah, I mean it really. It's a really good way to kind of function. You know you don't get all your power consolidated into one place, but you know everybody's got to have a voice and one of the things we have struggled with is that it's. You know, if you have three people in a room, that's a public quorum, so that technically qualifies as a public meeting. So it's really difficult to have conversations and discussions about things outside of our monthly meetings. So yeah, but a lot of people don't really know, you know, the difference between a commission and a council.
Speaker 1:That's essentially what it is. Okay, sounds good. So the mayor serves a four-year term, so he's up every four years. The commissioners, which are the other four, they're every two years and then like what kind of issues have you had to, what kind of power have you had over the last few years?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, yeah, the mayor is every four years. His last election was 2022. The commissioners are every two years, and yeah. So some of the issues we face are just normal stuff. I mean, how do you fix a road? I mean, those are obviously everybody deals with those. We've had stuff. How do we? We've been working on this project to build a? Those We've had stuff. You know how do we? We've been working on this project to build a park and we want to build a good park and a new city building so we can have enough space for everybody, a space for people to come and have our city meetings. And you know we've been working on that for well over two years now.
Speaker 2:We had to find the land, figure out how much we wanted to pay for it, negotiate the purchase and stuff like that. But then we also had to come up with how we were going to pay for it, and you know. So we had to discuss taxing options, what we wanted to do, how we were going to do it, what was fair, what wasn't fair. And you know there's also other other issues. As far as a lot of it's zoning and planning, you know what can go where. Uh, what kind of stuff do we want?
Speaker 2:We meet with developers and that's probably the most prevalent issue is just planning, and zoning is dealing with that stuff and it's really a lot more complicated than people think and the city doesn't have as much power as people would think. You know, a lot of people think we can just pick and choose who comes in and what they build. But ultimately we can establish the zone and say commercial, not commercial. But we can't say you know, hey, we want Jeff Ruby Steakhouse, put it in. It's just not that simple. We can say we'll allow you to put a restaurant, and it could be Jeff Ruby Steakhouse, put it in. It's just not that simple. We can say, well, we'll allow you to put a restaurant, and it could be Jeff Ruby, it could be Taco Bell. So you know, at the end of the day you do what you can to try to make it so that the plans and developments that come through do fit within what the people expect, and that's a challenging thing to do when you're in that part.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, no, and that sounds about right. So you have lots of input and control over kind of like just development in general, and you've had a big one there recently, over the last few years. But also the power to tax that's been another issue that's come up as well. So, yeah, so that's the role of the commission and the mayor. So you were up for reelection in this past November 2024. Take me through that election so who was running, how many people for how many different seats? And then what went wrong on election day?
Speaker 2:So yeah, so it. You know, again every two years there's an election. My first election there were five of us running for four spots and you know that went off without a hitch. The second election it literally was just four people for four spots, so didn't have to do much. I mean other than just kind of exist, so that was an easy one. And this year we had five of us for four spots. I mean other than just kind of exist, so that was an easy one. And this year we had five of us for four spots. So you know, one of us was going to be left out and every person that ran had either been on the existing commission or was previously on the commission. So again, it's not a lot of public interest in running, but those who do it tend to kind of stick with it because they know how to do it and they just want to do the right thing, but I mean campaigning.
Speaker 2:I didn't I would say I didn't go super crazy. You know I wasn't out beating down the doors, but I did make a few trips around some of the streets, knock on some doors, put some signs up. You know, kind of the usual thing. I'm a pretty social person when it comes to that. I had oddly enough, I had worked with Commissioner Mefford and Commissioner Bine. You know they had handed out some of my door hangers. I handed out some of mine, you know. We all got along pretty good.
Speaker 2:And then election day came and about 10.30, 11 o'clock I'd received a message from somebody saying you know, hey, did something change. I got to vote for you and it was like no, you shouldn't have been able to do that. So I sent a message to the county clerk, reached out to the city administrator as well and just kind of said like hey, what's going on? And at that time, from what I understand is, the clerk took action and basically said hey, we're going to swap out the current machines and put in new ones so that we can at least say this is when the errors were.
Speaker 2:This voting box has ballots from 6 am to about 12. This voting box has ballots from 6 am to about 12. This box is from 12 on. So what the issue was was there are two stacks of ballots. There are ballots for people inside the city limits of Union and there are ballots for people that live in Union but not inside the city limits. So that's a county ballot and it literally can be, I mean, one street to the next. It can change so that basically, what happened was the poll worker had, if you came in and your license said Union Kentucky, they were giving you a ballot for inside the city.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so to be clear, so I have some poll working experience here. Yeah, and so to be clear, so I have some poll working experience here. The location where people vote is called a poll and the jurisdiction that they are able to cast their vote is a precinct. So the difference being like the precinct would be like your area, so it might be your city council, your local issues, but also any state issues that apply to you in any kind of federal. So in this case, like we had the presidential election, so you can have multiple precincts at the same polling location. So that does happen, that is very common. So in that case, when someone shows up like you're saying they would check in with the clerk at the beginning, they would check in with the clerk at the beginning and even if and they would be given excuse me they would be given a ballot based off their precinct. But so just to clarify that you have multiple precincts at one polling location Correct, correct.
Speaker 2:And so, basically, what would happen is you would come in, you would get your ballot, you would vote, and that was that. And again the issue boiled down to them saying hey, any person that comes in if it says union, whether they live in the city or not, the poll worker had given them that ballot and again, it wasn't intentional, it was just an honest mistake by a poll worker.
Speaker 1:So that kind of stinks. How long did that? Do you know how long the issue was going on for?
Speaker 2:About six hours is what they think. It was basically the morning till about noon, the first half of the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we have five voting precincts and that occurred in two of them. So you know that was that and there were, you know, on the flip side of that, what was trying to be figured out was how many people inside the city did not get ballots for the city. And that's where it gets a little bit of a gray area. You know the reports. The county clerk indicated they received three phone calls. The city administrator received two. So you know, we're not really sure the extent that union voters weren't able to vote, but my understanding is that it really wasn't that many people that couldn't vote.
Speaker 2:The issue was too many people voting that shouldn't have. So again, when they became aware of the issue they did what they could to get it fixed. But there was a brief period where they had to say look, we don't have any ballots for the city of Union, we've run out. So they would tell somebody, you can come back or you can vote using the county ballot, which obviously is not right. So you know, but again, within my understanding is that they were able to produce new ballots within the hour and get that back out. So the number of people again that wanted to vote, that couldn't pretty minimal, but the number of people who voted that shouldn't have it was a bit more substantial.
Speaker 1:Okay, do you know, like approximately how many people we're talking about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so at that time the records from the voting machines. You're able to break it down pretty good, able to break it down pretty good and basically the two precincts Precinct 1 and 4, during those times had 414 people request a ballot that lived inside the city limits. So that's 414 union voters that came to vote. My assumption is that a majority of them were able to vote. The number that voted that shouldn't have, we've narrowed it down to approximately 518. So that's a pretty hefty number, saying that 518 people voted that shouldn't have. But yeah, I mean, ultimately, that's where the main point of contention comes in is what do you do with these people and their ballots that ultimately shouldn't have been cast and shouldn't have been counted?
Speaker 1:Yeah and then. So what were the election results for the commission race?
Speaker 2:So, basically what happens the election gets finished and the county clerk is required to tabulate the votes. So they knew there were issues. But the role of the clerk isn't to distinguish, to resolve the issue. They look at the numbers, they total them and they certify them. That's the legally established role of the clerk and the board of elections. So they certify the results, counting the ballots that were from non-resident voters, and we got roughly 5,065 ballots cast. So each of those ballots, if you're voting for a commissioner, you're able to vote for up to four people. So out of that the results came in and we had the first place guy got about 2,200 votes. 2,200 votes. Second place was just under 2,000. Third was about 1,750. And then you have me. I had 1,693. And then the last place guy had 1,628. So that's ultimately where we came in at.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you're pretty close between fourth and fifth place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were pretty close. It was a larger margin than my first election. But I mean again, that's not very many people to say that, hey, they only need to swing this way.
Speaker 1:But it's yeah, so when the dust settles it's a close race between fourth and fifth, and fifth place does not make the commission. So the problem when it came to the election was just the morning at the one polling location, you had the early votes, which are not affected, in the afternoon votes, which are not affected, but still it was a very slim margin between the final two places. So what happened after that?
Speaker 2:So the first thing most of us were just kind of like well, what do we do? How do we fix this? What can be done versus what we want to be done, and how soon can it be addressed? So the first kind of thing that happened was the county clerk filed a request for a recount, because that's really the only thing they can do here, and they said, hey, there was an issue, we want to recount these. So I think it was that next Tuesday, so a week after the election, there was a court hearing. I think I got notice at 9.15 that they were going to have a hearing at 10 o'clock and I was on a field trip with my son so I obviously didn't go to the hearing. But so they had a hearing. They met with the judge, the county clerk, the judge, the attorney for the guy who finished in last, and basically what the judge said was look, you know the recount's not going to change the numbers, because it's not a question of the numbers, it's a question of whether these ballots were right.
Speaker 2:So it doesn't, it's not going to do any good to recount it. So he basically said you know, hey, we're not going to do a recount, but I'm going to allow for if you want to file an election contest, you can file an election contest. So after that I reached out. I had reached out to the guy who finished fifth and was just trying to say, like, well, what happened at this meeting? Because I didn't know. And he didn't, just trying to say like, well, what happened at this meeting? Because I didn't know. And he didn't answer. I was like, okay, he was probably busy.
Speaker 2:Ten minutes later I get a call and it's like, hey, did you try to call this guy? And I'm like, yeah, he's like, well, I'm his attorney, what do you want? I'm like, well, I want to talk to this guy. And so that kind of set the tone right there. You know, let you know what we're dealing with. And so basically then that was the second week of November and right away, you know, we start getting pressure me and the other commissioners from this attorney saying, hey, you need to sign this, Sign this agreement.
Speaker 2:We want to sign this agreement that says that we want to throw the election out, we want to redo, we want all this and I'm like, whoa, hold on, what are we talking about? What can really happen? And I reached out, had a couple conversations with some attorneys and one thing I found out is that there are no election attorneys because nobody. It's not a very lucrative field and it just doesn't happen often. So nobody is really an expert in this law and what happens. But it was pretty unanimous. Look, the law doesn't allow for a special election. It's not going to happen.
Speaker 2:It's either going to be voided and the mayor will then appoint people, or it won't be voided, but a special election, it's just not in the cards.
Speaker 1:Okay, so at this point there were three proposed solutions. So there was a special election which would have taken place, I'm assuming, soon or like months later. Yeah, how would that have. Even worked.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's part of the. Again the issue. A lot of the issues was, as I like to call it, kind of fogging up the issue. As someone who has a law degree yourself, you know that lawyers have this amazing talent to make things much more pleasant than they need to be. I don't know what you're talking about. So yeah, so all of a sudden we start getting these. You know, like, hey, if you guys, if you all sign this form, we're going to get a special election. And I would talk to somebody and say it doesn't matter if you sign the form, only a judge can call a special election, and a judge doesn't have that authority. So I'm like why would I sign this? And then, on the flip side of that, there also is the concerns of, like, what is a special election? When does it happen? Who pays for it? My understanding is the county would pay for it and a special election. The numbers were anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000. Oh wow.
Speaker 2:Which I was like wait, what? That's a lot of money for something so small as a city commission spot. So you know, so we're kind of going back and forth on that. And you know, in the meantime some of us were trying to figure out, well, what happens while this is going on, while this suit's going on, you know, does the city keep operating? Does it not operate? Who's on the commission, who's not?
Speaker 2:And again we're hearing from certain people that, hey, because there were errors, your election doesn't even count. You're not, your certificates are void, you can't take office, we're going to file a restraining order. And again I'm over here just like what in the world is going on and it's crazy. So, moving from that, we said, okay, well, what else can really happen? What's going to happen? And it was. Well, we can try to figure out what the numbers would look like if we take these out and say, look, we've got these 900 ballots. We don't know which ones are valid, which ones aren't. We can throw them out, still have numbers. How does it look? Or we're going to avoid it all and the mayor can appoint people. And you know, again, you can only work with what you got. And if there's two options, you know, I kind of reviewed the numbers and looking at the numbers I just said, man, to me it was close. But I don't see any scenario where the fifth place guy would have come in fourth and I would have came in last.
Speaker 2:It just doesn't. Is it possible? Yes, is it probable? No, and that's the part with me where I was like you know, what are we really trying to accomplish here? How much time, how much energy, how much money? What would I have done in that situation If I would have finished in fifth?
Speaker 2:Would I be threatening lawsuits and this and that? Or would I just call it a day? And I know, on election day or the day after, I spoke with one of the other commissioners and I just said, man, this stinks. But if it were me and I was a fifth, I would just walk away. I mean, at the end of the day, I can go to the city meetings, I can speak at the city meetings, I know all their phone numbers, I can call them, I can have input, I can have my voice heard and I would have faith in them to do a good job anyway. So you know again, not a perfect situation, but that's a heck of a lot better than running up tens of thousands of dollars in bills and just causing all this tension and chaos and then ultimately leading to a point where one the last remaining member of the commission. The mayor gets to just pick whoever he wants, and that's where we're at now.
Speaker 1:Okay. So to kind of fill in the gap between so Immediately after the election, it's clear that the person who came in fifth place wants this resolved in a way Like he was not okay just accepting the results as they were and so he wanted to go for another solution whether it was a special election was proposed. I guess the other options at that point were to just accept the results as they were, or there was a possibility that it could just be avoided altogether and then the mayor would be allowed to appoint the commissioners. How does the process work for where a mayor would appoint the commissioners, if that was ever out taken?
Speaker 2:So basically, I mean again, this is the laws and statute related to elections is pretty specific and there's not a lot to it because it just again, this isn't something that happens all the time. So basically, what it does is it says, in the event that there's a vacancy, the remaining members on the body appoint the person. So if there's one vacancy, the four remaining members would appoint. If there's two, then three. In this case, the voided election, no one is on the commission except for the mayor, and the mayor then picks one, those two then pick a third, those three then pick a fourth, those four then pick a fifth, and that's ultimately how that process goes.
Speaker 1:Okay, so in that case the bear could technically pick whomever he wants for pick number one, right?
Speaker 2:Correct In our meeting in December it was our final meeting Again we were still in limbo trying to figure out what's going to go on, and at the end of the meeting I just said hey, point of order, which is what you say when you want to talk. I said what's your plan If this gets voided, because we have a court date December 30th? What's your plan? Who are you going to appoint? And the answer at that time was I don't know. And I said well, that's strange, but also, this is my last time to speak for the public. So I think, with all this going on, I think the public has a right to know who you're going to appoint. And I even made the recommendation. I said well, here I'll make it easy for you.
Speaker 2:John Mefford had the most votes. I'm pretty sure he's had the most votes in every election for the last decade. John was a teacher. He's a great guy, very well liked. So you know, I thought I'd throw him a bone and give him the easy choice and he just kind of shook his head and that was that. So you know, I was a little curious to see you know why, why you couldn't just say, like, well, I'll pick first place, second place, third place, fourth place and make it nice and easy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so by that time in late December. So there was the immediately after the election, there were the negotiations for how to resolve it. The commissioner or the person running for commission who got fifth place won a special election.
Speaker 1:Negotiations break down and he files a suit against the county clerk who ran the election, but then the remaining candidates for commission correct, correct, yeah, and also the board of elections, and the board of elections too, and so the immediate fallout of that is one of the commissioners, one of the candidates, I should say, who was running for the commission had actually dropped out in December. So by the end of December, when you're at that meeting, there's only basically four candidates left for four spots. When you ask the mayor who he would appoint, yeah, yeah, they were just at that time when you asked the mayor who he would appoint.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they were just at that time. So, yeah, one of the caveats was, you know, again, the election day was November 5th I think, and you know, in between then the lawsuit gets filed, things start getting a little tense and we're all just kind of looking around Like especially those of us that aren't suing is like man, I don't know. This guy's telling us we need an attorney. He's telling us we need an attorney. He's telling us that this is going to take time and money and energy. And again, we're all just kind of looking at each other like what in the world are we supposed to do? One attorney I spoke with was going to be like $450 an hour and I'm like man, it definitely ain't worth it. The salary for a city commissioner, I think it's $4,500 or $5,000. But even then, to me it's just crazy to think that I would want to spend all this money on that.
Speaker 1:And one thing that's kind of different about election litigation as opposed to normal litigation is the speed of the litigation. So normally, like a lot of lawsuits, it's not uncommon for lawsuits to take one, two, maybe even more years to resolve. However, in this case, I mean with an election hanging in the balance you know, normally the law does not smile upon a long, lengthy, you know lawsuit, so they were trying to resolve it post-haste right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's part of the statute does say, hey, we get to skip to the front of the line and get our things heard quickly, which was I had initially been optimistic that it would go to a judge. A judge would see this was important and a judge would make a decision. And ultimately we just kind of slowly moved along till the end of the year, and I think part of that was the judge was trying to hope that a resolution would be reached. And then we hit the new year and the new commission was seeded and then it just kind of hit a point where the judge was like, look, I have to make a decision. And as soon as that was decided, it was like hey, file your legal briefs and I'll make a decision next week.
Speaker 1:And all of a sudden boom. So before we get there, so the new year, new commission is seated. So who was seated at that point?
Speaker 2:So we basically we had the first place guy, the second place guy and the third place guy had resigned, and then there was me. So on December I don't know if it was the 28th or 29th the guy filing suit, his attorney had filed a restraining order to say these people can't take office. This isn't right. We want to stop them. And it's like, well, I mean, just what's the point of this? You know, like at the end of the day, there were five people on the ballot, like the city's got to operate. There's no reason that you have to file a restraining order while this is going on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, usually people, when they think of restraining orders, you think of it in the context of violence between individuals, where you're maybe a crazy ex-spouse or something like that, right.
Speaker 1:And you want them to stay away from you. But in this case they're actually trying to stop an official business from going forward, which in some cases is appropriate, to be sure. So at that point you have three of the four commission spots filled, and so now there was an opportunity to fill the fourth spot, even though the lawsuit itself was still ongoing. Like, tell me about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So basically, you know, the new year comes in and we have the new commission and you know we're still kind of like is this going to be voided? What's going to happen? What happens if it gets voided? So of course, throughout that time it's like, hey, now we have this vacancy, we need to make an appointment. And absolutely we do, we need to make an appointment for the vacancy.
Speaker 2:So not much official public discussion on it. This was a lot of politicking. You know, behind the scenes and you know there was a lot of pressure. Just hey, just put this, just put the guy on the commission. You know he was the only one left, just put him on. And I don't disagree with those sentiments, but I do.
Speaker 2:I ultimately did disagree that like, look, an election was lost. I mean, there was an election, a person got fifth place and to me that says that like, hey, the people don't want this person Right wrong, indifferent. That it is what it is. And again, with the vacancy it kind of makes things a little more complicated. But basically what my thoughts were was like, look, I can't I just couldn't reward somebody with a position on the commission for basically filing a legal, you know, taking legal avenue and doing everything in their power to make things as difficult and tense as they could for not just those of us elected but the city staff. I mean, it's just been extremely stressful. And I'm here thinking, like, well, and even if I do, like the guy is still going to sue us why. That doesn't make any sense To me. That says, like I, it wasn't so much about what's best for the city, because I don't see any scenario where that's what's best for the city, so it was just we. Ultimately, we took a vote and the vote was two to two and it was like, look, we're stuck, what do we do? And at that time I said, hey, I think we should. You know again, he didn't win the election, this is a result of a vacancy. Let's just take applications, see what we can get. And honestly, I mean the guy who finished last was most likely going to be the most qualified choice. I mean he knows it, he's been doing it for two years. I mean he knows it, he's been doing it for two years. Again, he's interested in the stuff. He does a good job.
Speaker 2:But I felt that you know, we have a vacancy. When I looked at other cities and how they handled it. The cities that I saw, whether it was Louisville, covington, fort Wright, alexandria, all of those cities had taken applications. So, you know me, I felt that that was the way to go. You know, if it would have been, you know, a different situation and I had faith that this person was able to put the city first, I think it would have felt different.
Speaker 2:But you know, even there was a vacancy, there was a vacancy for the whole month of December and even at that point, we see, you know, there's still a restraining order that comes across and it's like, just to me it was just a total out of character thing for the person and it was like I just can't, I can't do it.
Speaker 2:I need to know what's going to happen, how the judge is going to rule, what's going to happen to the rest of us and to piggyback off of that.
Speaker 2:You know, my understanding was, you know, let's say, you know we do appoint the guy, he then would be an appointment and you know there was no reason to believe he was going to drop his lawsuit. But if he was appointed and we still get the same result the election's voided, the person that was appointed would still be on the commission because they were not elected and so you know. So essentially the scenario that I was looking at was like the guy who didn't win and is suing could possibly be on this commission, while everyone who won would not be on the commission, and to me it was just like that doesn't quite seem right. Like you know, we've got to figure out the right path forward and again, I mean, to me everybody's got their own personal thoughts and agenda and things like that, but just to me, the cost, the time, the stress really kind of shook my belief that the person was capable of doing what's best for the city.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's mid-January, and so you could have been in a situation where he gets appointed to the commission, but the lawsuit proceeds and the election results get voided, so he's the only one that remains, because he was appointed as opposed to elected, correct? So middle of January, you still have a two to excuse me, one vacancy left on the commission, and the lawsuit is proceeding, and then we get to the end of the month. How did the judge rule in your case?
Speaker 2:The end of the month, I think it was, I don't know if it was Wednesday or Thursday, but basically we get a I think it was Thursday Thursday late afternoon and we get this email from the judge's secretary says hey, judge, would like to have a hearing tomorrow. The ruling is going to be signed tomorrow afternoon. When can you be there? Well, the one attorney was busy all day, couldn't be there until after 2. The other attorney couldn't be there after. So, like, nobody's schedule is lined up. So basically then, which is end of the day, comes 4.30, we get an email copy of the ruling and the ruling says hey, essentially what they said is we can't determine fairly who would have won this election, so the election is void, merry.
Speaker 1:Christmas fairly who would have won this election. So the election's void merry christmas. You know, yeah, the judge. I read his order and he kind of looked at it. As you know, this was a really small margin of error. We can't say for sure how it would have played out, you know, had everything been cast and calculate, you know tabulated correctly. So therefore, know, the whole thing was tainted. And he voided the election results. So the judge voids the election results. That was a Friday. The following Monday there's a commission meeting. How did that commission meeting go?
Speaker 2:I think that might be. It's either the craziest or second craziest meeting we've had. This is where I'm from, this is my home, and I don't appreciate the politics being played with my home. Again, a small city, our city commission room. Again, it's not a chamber, it's a room. Yeah, so at this point.
Speaker 1:Sorry to interject again. There are no commissioners actually on seated at this point correct there's only the mayor. So you're under the part of the law, the statute, that says that the mayor gets to appoint the first commissioner and then, from then on, in collaboration with each other, they can continue to fill out the roster. Correct, correct and it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it goes in that route and, um, basically, you know the, the ruling happens just kind of oh crap, what's going to happen. You know, go through Saturday, go through Sunday, go through Monday, thinking man, what in the world is going to happen. And you know, I tried to play every scenario in my head and I typically do pretty good on that. I tried to play every scenario in my head, and I typically do pretty good on that and my expectations were way out of line with the reality of the situation.
Speaker 1:What was your expectation?
Speaker 2:I had anticipated that the again there were only four of us remaining. There were four spots. So again, my own naivete I guess would be the right word was that it would be the first place guy, probably the second place guy Third place guy again is not there anymore and I thought it would be a flip. It would be a fifth place guy and then me, and basically that would break the two-to-two tie that we had. It would basically get the commission with five people and that would be that. I mean, again, I'm not exactly thrilled that. It basically was a workaround, you know, kind of breaking the commission concept, but at the end of the day I was fine with it. But it's what I expected. And sure enough we get there. The meeting room is pretty small, three rows of chairs, maybe 10 chairs in each row, and it's packed. Usual. There's a sheriff there, which is pretty rare, but he was there. We had a state representative there. The news is there there's cameras and it's like, oh, my goodness. So yeah, it was a little crazy.
Speaker 1:So you've made the news by this point.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:People are paying attention, yeah which is rare.
Speaker 2:Our meetings average attendance by non-staff, non-commissioners is approximately like 0.9 people. Like I beg people, I'm like please come to these meetings. Like we want to hear what people think, you know. But yeah, this was crazy. I mean again, not the largest crowd, but you could feel the tension. The tension was in the air, just like what in the heck's going to happen.
Speaker 2:So the meeting starts, you know, right off the bat, it's hey, this guy's going to resign from the Board of Adjustments. And I'm like, okay, well, it's strange that he's sitting in the front row. You know why would you show up at your own resignation? But whatever. And the mayor speaks and gives his spiel about what's going on and why, and he says, okay, I'm gonna make my first appointment. He appoints, you know, the first place guy, commissioner Mefford. As expected, everybody says, you know, again, very popular first place votes. Been doing a good time, good guy, no brainer, right?
Speaker 2:So sits down, does a swearing in, goes to the next one. Boom, he appoints the fifth place guy. And I was like, okay, I could see that. You know, it makes sense, whatever you know. Does his swearing in and then, boom, he makes his third appointment and he announces the guy and sure enough it's the guy who just resigned from the Board of Adjustments and that guy did not run for office, he was not on the ballot. His qualifications again, on a personal level the guy's a great guy, but the qualifications for this position are that he is friends with the mayor and that's about as far as those qualifications go. So at that point everybody was kind of looking around like what just happened and it was like shock and disbelief.
Speaker 1:Yeah, could you sense it in the audience?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you could feel it in the audience. I was in the again, it's a small area, so I was kind of in the lobby, the overflow, yeah, I mean it was straight out of a movie. I'm sitting here and then all of a sudden, the media people, you feel their eyes kind of looking at me and two of the reporters come out. They're like what do you have to say? And I was like what do I say, you know? And I was like, uh, you know, what do I say? That's, that's? Uh, you know, I try really hard. I'm notorious for speaking my mind and speaking in words that aren't the best and uh, I was just like, wow, you know, I don't know, let me think here.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I gave a couple of statements and couple statements, and so so once they appointed the third guy, then that was it, even though there's one more spot left to open yeah, so what they did?
Speaker 2:uh, they said, hey, we've got these three filled. You know, again, two, two based on the fact that they ran, one based on we don't know what, uh. But they said, you know, what we're going to do now is we're going to, we're going to allow application for this final spot, because, I mean, after all, it's a great idea. But you know, again, it doesn't make sense that they would do that in light of their previous opposition. But also, again, this third place, this third appointment, I mean he didn't apply, so why was he above application? But yeah, they, they basically said that you know, we're going to decide at our next meeting, february 19th, and yeah, so that's kind of, I mean again, like it is what it is, it's done at that point. And so one of the local reporters, like hey, will you come out and talk? And I was talking to to her channel five. You know kind of asking questions, cause they're kind of like hey, will you come out and talk?
Speaker 2:And I was talking to her to Channel 5, kind of asking questions because they're kind of like what in the world? And one of the other people kind of said, hey, it's public comment.
Speaker 1:It's your turn and I'm like oh, so you're already giving comments to the media while the media is still ongoing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm very Public speaking is not something I enjoy. The more I know that people are listening to what I'm saying, the more nauseous I get.
Speaker 1:Yeah so you'd rather give a statement in a small padded room. Yeah, in your brother-in-law's basement, in a creepy murder room.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but I was crazy. So I'm like crap. I walk in and it's like dead silent. And I walk in from the room and just kind of look around and I'm just like I don't even know what to say. I was trying really hard to not drop an F-bomb or throw my shoe or something. I'm just like so mad and frustrated, but honestly, shocked was the best way to describe it was. It was just like wait, what you know? And so I get in and I'm just like, well, you know, now or never, this is the last chance I'm going to get to really say my piece and say it in a way that anyone hears what I have to say.
Speaker 2:And you know, you get two, three minutes to speak and that's it. As soon as your time's up, the mayor is quick to hey, time's up, get out of here, you know. And surely he was not going to let me go beyond my time for this. So I basically you know it's kind of whenever I go on my rants, it's very I just speak from the heart, you know, and I basically just went in and said like man, I just speak from the heart, you know, and I basically just went in and said like man, this is nuts. You know the easiest way to explain it. I basically just said hey, you suck. You know, I mean I didn't air every grievance I have, but I let him know. I said like this is so wrong. Man Like you stabbed me in the back.
Speaker 1:I'm disappointed, not surprised.
Speaker 2:This would not be the first time that the mayor has stabbed me in the back. I'm disappointed, not surprised. This would not be the first time that the mayor has, I would say, stabbed me in the back. And you know, at the end of the day you've got to live with yourself and your principles and your values, and what kind of person you are.
Speaker 2:This is crazy. Like how did you, how can you do this? And I mean, I'm pretty sure I was like how do you sleep at night, stuff like that. I mean it was. I was so mad and I was trying not to raise my voice and again I didn't want to say anything. I would regret, but I also wanted to really say like look man, this is stupid.
Speaker 2:Like this is a small city, there's no reason for it to be politics. I get it, it's politics, but like the whole thing is, we're just supposed to be five people working together and figuring stuff out. And this was like just beyond any realm of decency. And it's not the first time beyond any realm of decency, you know, and it's not the first time and it might be the last time, but you know, again it's.
Speaker 2:I would always describe our commission hey, we've got four people and a politician, and I would leave that up to interpretation.
Speaker 2:But I mean it was like wow, again, I was just floored, you know, and I spoke and I basically told him what I was thinking, told him how much I didn't like him, told him how this is just wrong to say like, hey, I want to do what's best for the city.
Speaker 2:So I'm just going to appoint people who aren't going to question me one bit and are just going to let me do what I want, and that's it Like insane. And then I basically was like well, and then I went back out to the lobby and just kind of stood there and let the steam come out of my ears and and, uh, you know, I talked with a couple people and then the meeting was over and probably spent about 30 minutes talking to various people of the public, you know, and had a lot of positive feedback saying, hey, man, what you said was right. And, um, you know, this is crazy, this just doesn't pass the smell test. This is crazy. You've got to do something. And unfortunately there isn't much I can do, you know that's the part that stinks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's no mechanism that you know of that could change that correct. Like it's still as of now, there's still one more vacancy under the law, it's still. The mayor can do it in consultation with the sitting members of the commission. That appears to be the path forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it. The only way a mayor can be basically removed is if the commission unanimously does it?
Speaker 1:Oh, you need the commission to remove the mayor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I don't think that's going to happen, based on what they've got there, you know, and other than that, I mean there is nothing, there is no. The people of Union can't recall and say, hey, this guy just ignored every single vote and just did what he wanted and put in people that are his friends For the perspective of the actual election contest. You have 10 days after the ruling to appeal it, which that line is this Monday. And I'm torn. I honestly don't want to drag it on. But now it's like it's so messed up that what do you do? And I've talked to a couple of attorneys and again it's kind of the same sentiment hey, it was going to be expensive before. This is more expensive and it's more complicated, it's going to take thousands of dollars. And I'm like yeah, no, no, thanks. So I've been trying to.
Speaker 2:Part of this fun process has been you're allowed to represent yourself and people think that's nice and easy and it is, it's trying to. It's like imagine you're in college and you completely forgot you had a paper due and it's your last week and you're studying for exams and you're also doing this paper on and I'm just like throwing together anything I can do and you got to figure out down to the format how you got to do it, like it's got to be justified, the font has to be a certain font. You got to have so much and it's like, wow, and you're trying to cite court cases and you know. So I made this. I think it was eight or nine page legal brief it was. Oh my God, it was a piece of work, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well as it stands now, there's one vacancy on the commission. We will see how it unfolds. Do you have any final thoughts?
Speaker 2:Man, probably nothing appropriate, but no, I mean the big thing. I tell everybody on this and it'll probably be a better chance for me to say some kind of message promoting myself. But the number one thing I tell people is like, look, right or wrong, whatever, wherever you live, like just go to your local city meetings and just honestly just observe, listen, get involved. Most of these people on these things want to hear from people. They want to hear what they have to say. Um, you know, and that's God, we could just get people involved. And I'm not talking protesting and you know, left first, right or anything, just like, hey, what's? You know what's going on in my city, what's going on with taxes, what's going on with potholes. If more people got involved then everything is better. You know, whatever city, whatever party, just the more people involved make things better. So I just tell people look, just get involved, go to the meetings. You don't even have to talk, just be informed, and that's honestly the best thing people can do.
Speaker 2:We're really fortunate in northern Kentucky. We've got a small local news organization. It's called Link NKY. They are literally the only news organization that comes to all of our meetings. They go to the county meetings. They go to all the cities. They're a little more focused on Kenton and Campbell County than Boone, but I mean I tell people all the time, go to that site. They do an amazing job and a lot of it is just hey, this place is being approved for zoning, but they cover stuff so well. They do a good job. Being fair, and I know that they don't have a lot of staff, they don't have a lot of money, but the more people that put eyeballs on that, then the better. It helps them and they can report more, report better. Yeah, I mean, the local stuff is just crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, Brian, thanks for coming onto the pod and sharing your story.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. I hope to be back for round two someday.
Speaker 1:All right, yeah, next time I'll be on. It'll be a fun conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll do national politics next.
Speaker 1:Oh good, all right, thank you. Thanks, man. How the Union Commission's final seat will be filled remains to be seen. If you'd like to contact Brian, you can find links to his Blue Sky and Facebook accounts in the show notes. You can also check out his Ask Me Anything on the Politics subreddit to hear more about this experience, his public service and how his political views have changed over the years. It is scheduled for the second week of February. Thanks for listening everyone.
